1923 DUTCH 'VICKERS' SOLD

PHOENIX INVESTMENT ARMS - PREMIUM COLLECTOR LUGERS
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Vickers

Known as the M11 by the Dutch first contract consumated in 1911 with DWM.  Basically a 1906 Parabellum with the "RUST" Dutch "Safe", double-sided 'GELADEN' on the extractor and usually the Javanese-grips were significantly courser than the DWM made at the Geweermakersschool in Bavaria. These 'commercial type' 1906 models were adopted to the Dutch requirements and finally assembled by Vickers in 1922 for delivery during the period of restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles.  (1713)

NOTE: Photographs taken today with the high mega-pixel camera show more than we sometimes can see with the human eye. Magnified close-ups show us tool marks and natural surface conditions that one normally doesn't see in the ordinary handling of the weapon.  Photographs are copyrighted, all rights reserved, any extraction, reproduction or display of gun pictures without the express consent of the Phoenix Investment Arms is strictly prohibited. Thank you for your cooperation.  Please visit Legal (tabbed) for Conditions of Sale.

 

  After WWI, in 1919, DWM began peace time production and to underline this shift was renamed Berlin-Karlesruher Industrie-Werke A.G. in May 1922.  During WWI the Dutch East Indies Army had largely expanded. The existing 1914 order had been cancelled by DWM's wartime production requirements and after the war the Dutch were ready to resume ordering.

  The predecessors of both DWM & Vickers had established links dating back to 1892. The Treaty of Versailles forbade Germany from producing 9mm and barrels of 100mm or longer. The Dutch order of 6000 Parabellums in the depressed time of the post war was a problem to be resolved. DWM response to this 1919 order arranged to deliver all the necessary parts for the "M-11" (Dutch nomenclature for the Luger) to be delivered "in the white" to Vickers, with a few gauges and machines for "final" finishing.

 

Note these are short framed, long-seared '06 models with the 9mm barrel with a 4" (100mm) barrel. Proof marks include the British Proofs under the barrel and the Dutch acceptance of Queen Wilhelmena
The Serial number appears on the front of the frame and under the barrel. The last two digits appear at the bottom of the side plate and locking lever, inside on the trigger, the grip safety and other small parts.
The very early prescription for the Dutch Luger was for a drop bottom magazine that permitted cleaning.  This was a great idea on paper for the climate of Indo-China to keep the magazines and springs clean and oiled but in practice these hindged magazines would come detatched when slammed into the gun or from the recoil of the gun, leaving the bottom swinging and bullets falling about.  This was not good for morale.
The number of Vicker's produced parabellum was exactly 6,000 from 4182-10181. This  rather exclusive club were proofed according to the British Proof Laws under the barrel. There are no gauge markings and by then the drop bottom magazines had given way to the silver sleeved, wood bottom standard models.
The Front and Rear of the Vicker's P-08 show the full four digit serial number and the last two digits of the serial number appearing on the rear toggle above the lanyard loop.

 

 Queen Wilhemina:  Although the Netherlands remained neutral during World War I sizeable German investments in the Dutch economy combined with a large trading partnership in goods forced the United Kingdom to blockade the Dutch ports in an attempt to weaken the German The Dutch government traded with Germany in response. German soldiers were given for their rations before an assault. Wilhemina was a 'soldier's queen', being a woman, she could not be Supreme Commander, but she nevertheless used every opportunity she had to inspect her forces. On many occasions she appeared without notice, wishing to see the reality, not a prepared show. She loved her soldiers, but was very unhappy with most of her governments, which used the military as a constant source for budget-cutting. Wilhelmina wanted a small, but well trained and equipped army. However, this was far from the reality. In the war, she felt she was a "Queen-On-Guard." She was always wary of a attack, especially in the beginning. However, violation of Dutch territorial sovereignty came by both Britain and the United States, who, with the blockade, captured many Dutch trade cargo ships in an attempt to disrupt the German war effort. This led to increased tensions between the Netherlands and the Allied forces.

All the pistols of this order arrived with the Crown "W"; on the serial number guns 1 to 2141 the proof mark was on the right side and on the left side for all the remaining so proofed.

 

Continuing to examine this variation as a 'Commercial' gun we see the right hand side of the firing chamber is not proofed as most military guns. The left side doesn't reflect the serial number but the Crown W (Queen Wilhelmina). Only exactly 6,000 "Vickers" exist and these were shipped in the 1920's to Dutch East Indies, some surviving WWII and of those the ones making it to the US can be counted rather quickly.
Located on the breech block and 1st toggle link is the Crown V British proof of Vickers (Queen Victoria) that shows it was proofed before hardening. The proofs are crisp and this pushes one in the direction that if this Parabellum was re-blue it was done 'in-house' to avoid buffing and grinding off imperfections and proofs.

 

 Most Dutch Vickers are encountered with  a brass plate, measuring approximately 1 1/2 inches in length by 3/8ths of an inch in height, will probably be found to be braised onto the left side of the frame between the wooden grip and the left toggle. These plates were added to the pistol by the Netherlands Government for enlisted issue and usually have various combinations of letters and numbers inscribed thereon. They acted as identification plates for the profusion of military units to whom Lugers were issued.

 

 

 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

Other honest holster wear this gun is practically minty in the world of the Dutch Lugers. The straw bluing is still strong on the locking lever, the trigger, magazine release and extractor.
The grips of the Dutch are unique because they didn't come from the gun smith training school in Bavaria who were awash in their own requirements of post war reorganizing from a war0time schedule.  Rather they were shipped without grips to Java and their they were individually crafted, albiet with a much courser diamond but non the less fully function to the Parabellum. Inside the grips are what appear to be proof marks and the left grip appears to be unit marked.  The exterior BELOW has been enlarged to see the difference in the diamond size from the standard DWM pattern.
One of the characteristics of the Dutch Parabellums was the requirement of the Dutch Government that the "Geladen" or 'Loaded' should appear on both side of the extractor. Here we can clearly see the original extractor left & right with markings.
It is entirely subjective to give any Luger a rating of excellent or fine, just as it is to declare it xx% blued or strawed. Few Lugers are out of the box new and these are premium priced. Bluing percentages is like Beauty, in the eye of the beholder.  We strive to provide pictures so you can judge for yourself if the gun meets your criteria. Any questions or request for additional purchases email to josef@phoenixinvestmentarms.com

 

The Vickers, outside of the Swiss variations manufactured by Waffenfabrik Bern, is the only model of the Luger that has ever been produced outside of Germany. Some say it was just "assembled" in England from German parts, however it has been stated that not only was some machinery sent but also some guages.  It appears true that most of the gun were sent in the white but the application of "Vicker LTD" to a hardened part does not suggest a hardened part.

 

Authentic Dutch Vickers in excellent condition for the Dutch East Indies model. We reserve the right to sell any internet offering to a direct sale and no not warrant the availability of any firearm that does not have a physical deposit. This gun may be withdrawn without notice for in-store sale.

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LAYAWAYS:  Sometimes our "significant other" doesn't understand the beauty, craftsmanship and investment potential of one of these investor grade weapons.  In these circumstances where discretion becomes the better part of valor we will accept layaways of up to one year with at least 20% down and some activity occurring monthly to insure that after one year the sale is completed.  Cancellations of layaways forfeit 33% if done within two months, otherwise 100%. You can transfer a layaway to a consignment sale at any time. See "Legal" for exact terms.

 

See Credits, Bibliography, Notices and Disclaimers.

3 Day Return Policy

We honor a three day return policy. We will answer any questions, send you any pictures, as detailed as you want, to insure that what we are showing you is what you want to see, before you buy it.  See Legal.

FIRING ANY WEAPON NEGATES ANY CHANCE OF RETURN!

WARNING: We do not represent these guns as safe to fire. They are not test fired before sale; they are sold as collectibles only. Prior to firing you should have it inspected by a qualified individual and abide by all safety requirements.

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Copyright 2001-2009  Phoenix Investment Arms Inc.

 

Copyright 2009  Phoenix Investment Arms Inc.